Interview with Saloua Ali Ben ZahraWG: As a scholar of Tunisian literature, specifically work that concentrates on disability, you have had plenty of opportunity to consider the differences between the way disability is viewed in Tunisia and the way it is viewed in the United States? Do you think there is a difference in attitudes towards disability in these two countries? If so, what are they? SABZ: The role of the family in caring for a disabled member is major in Tunisia and is very often assured without much help from the government. That comes from and reinforces further the attitude that it is the obligation, affective and social, of the family to assume even all of the caring and caretaking that involves. It seems that the level of assistance available to a family caring for a disabled member in the US is more readily provided, better organized and easily sought. Access to support may create more opportunities for a disabled person in the US to pursue development and success farther from the house, home and family. The limitations in that in Tunisia tend to keep a disabled person closer to the family and house. That has considerable yet mixed advantages as the attitudes toward a person with a disability in Tunisia tend to be marked by a high level of affectionate inter-personal contact within the family while possibly keeping that person more sheltered vulnerable than he or she would need or want. A person with a disability in such a context would be less isolated, less expected to do a great deal by himself or herself, but also less free to pursue challenges and accomplishments he or she would like to follow and attain. That may translate further differently between the two countries in the attitudes toward disability in terms of expectations. It seems that in the US because very many disabled persons proved their abilities to succeed more independently far from family, the American people in general has high expectations from a person with a disability and think a person with a physical impairment can accomplish anything they set their minds to achieve. Perceptions of achievements by persons with disabilities are moving more in progress in American culture to be seen less of exceptions with the increasing focus in critical approaches to disability representation on the individual with a disability. In Tunisia, however, and although there are case by case variations, there are still limits to people's perceptions of what a person with a disability can do professionally and have socially. Academic and professional success can be still seen as an exception to what the public sees as a norm of limitation projected on a group or category as in thinking that the Deaf as a group cannot dance, therefore a Deaf individual cannot dance. Able-bodied people see the success of a person with a disability as "inspiring" which is a term that seems to be positive, yet has been receiving a lot of criticism from the Disability Studies communities in the US. At the social level, for example it tends to be considered exceptional for a person with a disability to marry although there are gender-based differences involving other factors as well. It is more common in the US for persons with disabilities to marry and the struggle is in-progress by them and on their behalf to help them attain the right of giving birth to and adopting children, for instance. There seems to be more of a mix of condescension and protectionism in Tunisia that tends to receive less critical attention and rectification. On the other hand there may not be the same level of pressure placed on a person with a disability to overachieve as here in the US. A considerable difference in attitudes towards disability in Tunisia and the United States is the level of critical awareness on behalf of the disabled. Disability Studies are still almost inexistent in Tunisia and the study of disabilities tends to be limited to the social and medical sciences. The media does not give enough attention to the representations of the disabled in the various areas of the society and culture. If a disabled group is portrayed in a negative or ambivalent manner in the cinema or media, there seems to be more outspoken and prompt criticism of that in the US. In Tunisia, however, such occasional misrepresentations may go unnoticed and corrections unclaimed. In this context, one more difference comes to mind and that is a higher level of tolerance of what may seem to be even a mockery and ridicule of disability when it could be more of a good-natured humor about disability. People tend to be less offended. That is positive to a large extent and is to be improved upon while keeping one's mind open to any nuances of ableism to avoid real misperceptions and offenses. A number of additional specificities to Tunisian culture and society shape more differences in comparing the perceptions and attitudes toward disabilities in the US and Tunisia. Tunisian society is less varied in terms of race and culture. In the US people have been learning more and more about what it is like to be a person of color with a disability or a person from a different culture of origin living in the US with a disability. Tunisian society is more homogeneous and we have less access to such a wider and more diverse range in the human experience of disability. One more specificity has to do with the different politics between the US and Tunisia. In the context of what is called the "Arab Spring" in particular, being Tunisian with a disability has acquired special significances. We may get to that in a different question as it is a relatively new subject unfolding in new stories and histories. WG: Let's continue with what you were starting to explain about the impact of the "Arab Spring." Why do you say that it has a special significance for people with disabilities? SABZ: The entity of people with disabilities in society tends to be among the most vulnerable. They can be sheltered and confined, protected and suppressed / repressed. The historical phenomenon of what is called "the Arab Spring" has affected people with disabilities in complex and ambivalent ways. Many persons with disabilities hoped for real change, a time of real progress and concrete improvements in their situations compared to their conditions in the previous era ironically called "the era of change" in which they were used as a political agenda with some improvements to their situations, but insufficient change and mainly "lip service." They have been hoping for insightful and free research, study and expression of their predicaments. They have been impacted in an ambivalent way. On the one hand, a positive change that came out of the "Tunisian Revolution" has been a certain gain in free expression with apparently less repression from the presiding regime. There has been an outburst of critical social and artistic expression. An example is the video of Fatma Kharrat speaking in Tunisian Sign Language on behalf of the Tunisian Deaf Mute and criticizing their situations while expressing hope for change. Such a criticism would not have been possible to voice under the previous government. Yet, that was an expression among many of a certain frustration with the fact that the sacrifices paid for the "Tunisian Revolution" did not translate in an improvement of the lives of the people in general in the areas of employment, the condition of Dignity, or social justice. That was the case for people with disabilities in particular. They found themselves neglected more than ever before in the fields of care and service as they have not been on the list of the government's priorities under the new regime. To the disappointment of many members of the Tunisian people and community, we have been seeing a regression to the old repressive ways. Among the complex and ambivalent impacts of "the Arab Spring" on Tunisians with disabilities is the fact that we saw a government invested with many hopes and dreams cause disabilities to its own people. During certain protests the government resorted to repressive and violent tactics that caused a number of youth to get physically harmed among other injuries and insults. Among such disabling injuries were blindness in one eye for many young men. Despite this, the spirit of Tunisians, able-bodied and with disabilities, remains as strong as their will to live. Freedom of expression is a valuable gain and will continue to be defended and fought for. Regression is unlikely and difficult in that area as the people have experienced the taste to the free word after decades and will do all they can to defend their human right to free expression. People with disabilities will continue at least to speak in the first person in sign and every language they know and learn to voice to the world their predicament and that will lead to inevitable address and redress sooner or later. WG: You know, of course, that in the United States we have the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), and while far from perfect, it has helped to bring down some barriers in this country. Is there anything comparable to the ADA in Tunisia? SABZ: We do not have an equivalent to the ADA in Tunisia, but we have legislation and governmental legal and financial incentives to hiring people with disabilities. Public administrations and private sector business companies have been encouraged by government legislation in response to demands by associations caring for the disabled to hire a varying percentage of their workers (2% sometimes) among people with disabilities. It is common for example to find blind persons working as phone operators in ministries and some private companies. The Blind tend to be employed as masseurs also sometimes. The Deaf, especially young girls, may be given vocational training in hair styling schools or textile industry factories. There have been demands by associations caring for people with motor disabilities to make streets and buildings wheelchair accessible and while there has been some accomplishment in work on curbs in the main avenues and access in some buildings, there is still a major lack in accessibility. Regarding the Deaf and if we compare what ADA brought into being on their behalf, Tunisian Deaf do not even have access to any captioning of television programs intended to include them or educate them. Subtitling is mainly for foreign language programs and films occasionally. As for sign language interpretation, there has been a perfectible effort to offer that at the time of television news editions and some programs deemed of national importance, but that remains insufficient and there were some complaints that the signing was not always adequate. The key word is that it is all perfectible as the associations keep struggling for the rights of Tunisians with disabilities. One of such associations is "The Voice of the Tunisian Deaf." WG: Your mention of "The Voice of Tunisian Deaf" prompts me to ask if there are communities of deaf people in Tunisia that see being Deaf as a cultural identity in the way that Deaf people in the United States. It is Deaf culture, for example that lobbies against such things as cochlear implants or forcing oral education on Deaf children in schools. (For our readers I will note that for these groups that small "d" deaf indicates a physical impairment, whereas capital "D" Deaf indicates a cultural identity.) We can use Tunisian Arabic word BACCOUSH for Mute when we mention "Deaf" with a capital D" in the sense of someone born profoundly deaf, who has never heard or acquired hearing people's language through sound. Such a person recognizes himself or herself as having a different visually-based language, culture, minority and identity. That is to be distinguished from someone "deaf /sourd used in Tunisia to mean someone who lost hearing later in life after having acquired the majority's oral and aural language. SABZ: In Tunisia, there are communities of deaf people and hearing people who see being Deaf as a Tunisian and
international cultural identity. The hearing people involved are usually health professionals, such as one audiologist
in particular with a special awareness of the cultural dimension of being Deaf whose name is Lotfi Ali Zekri. Such
a community is also made up of universitaires, highly educated university professors and artists, especially in the
field of theatrical performance as the Tunisian drama actor and director Mohamed Idriss, as well as family members There is a number of associations that work on behalf of the Tunisian Deaf, but the major association is the Association for the Voice of the Tunisian Deaf which was founded by a Deaf person named Ali Louati. These communities try to do the best they can and their work, given the differences in the American and Tunisian contexts, would not lend itself to a description through the term "lobbying." Research about the Tunisian Deaf and critiques of their representations in the larger culture are limited as it was not a priority of the government previously despite some governmental and political work done by the government for the benefit of the disabled more generally. The associations mentioned shoulder the major work of research to study and try to help the Deaf. Artistic work led through creative partnership between the Association for the Voice of the Tunisian Deaf led
by Lotfi Ali Zekri and artists, such as Mohamed Idriss (the presidents of ICHARA) who wholeheartedly out of commitment and solidarity The Tunisian communities working for the Deaf have recently been growing to become more and more international thanks to technology. In the context of the latest struggles for dignity and justice staged by the people of the Arab world with an open window on the rest of the world through social media and fast instant electronic communication, the Tunisian Deaf have been learning more and more about different and often improved conditions of Deaf people in other parts of the world. That has strengthened their Will for better Deaf lives. WG: Is Tunisian Sign Language different and if so, what are some of its characteristics? SABZ: Tunisian Sign Language is marked by certain differences based on its context. It developed spontaneously in a milieu of oralist hearing and speaking dominance as a resistant and self-affirming expression and will to signify. It emerged in the familial environment where parents and siblings were the main supporters of a deaf child. There are several proverbs in Tunisia about deafness and one of them says "only the mother understands the language of the deaf-mute." Accordingly, a mother would be able to make sense out of her child's elementary signing and improvise to expand their common register for better communication. The close-knit nature of Tunisian communities traditionally where children are treated with much affectionate attention provided a supportive environment and hearing members of the communities would continue to improvise based on their shared context to overcome barriers of communication. In the past, Tunisian deaf tended to be predominantly illiterate. In original Tunisian sign language, it was not very common to find signing of alphabet letters. In the present, however, Tunisian Sign Language includes as a distinctive mark from English or French-based Sign Language, a signing of Arabic language letters and words. When written language was not used in Tunisian Sign Language, the Tunisian Deaf as sometimes endures up to the present, would use signing that draws on a shared social context with specific references in the common culture shaped by particular details of social interaction and Islamic religious practice that is inclusive of the aspect of peaceful coexistence with inter-faith communities. An example of signing that would draw on a specific fact of Tunisian everyday life would be the signing of the weekdays. The sign for Monday, for example, has been a gesture of running the back of the hand across the cheek on one's face. That would have a significance that Tunisians would understand as referring to the barber's job. As Mondays are usually the day when barbers rest, the Tunisian Deaf mean by that the barber's day off that is Monday. On Tuesday, women used to make home-made bread for the next day. Accordingly, the sign for Tuesday used to be the hand gesture of kneading. Wednesday would be indicated by tapping the fingers of the right hand on those of the left hand and that referred to the showings of Egyptian films on Tunisian television that included singing and dancing with female singers and dancers playing tambourins. Thursday is the day when many Tunisians would visit the shrine of a major saint of Tunis named "Sidi Bel Hassen Echedli" and the sign for that day would be the devout gesture of moving the index finger between lips and forehead as the forehead symbolizes fate, the destiny written for each person in traditional faith. Friday being the holy day of Muslims, the motion of prayer is the sign for it. Saturday would be designated by a gesture referring to Tunisian Jewish people to indicate the Sabat. Sunday would be indicated by pulling up the "bretelles" of the pants in a gesture indicating relaxation and rest while referring to European French clothing introduced in Tunisia through the colonial contact. Signs used for public space, names of parts of the city, suburbs and places, followed a similar logic of signing a symbol of a shared referent. La Marsa in the suburbs of Tunis for example is known for a touristic landmark, both for local native tourism and the tourism of international visitors, a famous local style coffee shop where there is a camel turning a water wheel. Accordingly, the sign for that place is a gesture representing a camel. It is worth noting that there is a certain difference in the use of "Deaf," "Sourd" and "deaf," "sourd" in the context of studying and discussing disability and deafness in Tunisia. The terms tend to be used in French. The Arabic language is known for its diverse multiple and rich calligraphic styles, but is not marked by the use of capital and small case letters the way English and French among other languages are. Whereas "Deaf" suggests the notion of cultural identity, "deaf" or "sourd" suggests the phenomenon of resisting the identification and label of deafness as a negative designation based in part on an interiorization of the French term "malentendant" suggestive of moral and social shortcoming in the expression "mal" and by attempting to pass as hearing in the social and cultural milieu of the society. Even though illiteracy and reduced levels of education, unemployment and underemployment prevail among the Tunisian Deaf, the efforts of associations such as The Voice of the Tunisian Deaf continue to present the Tunisian Deaf with various works of art, literature, dramatic performance that would help them become more critical of their situations and aware of their potential for improvement on all fronts of life nationally and internationally. WG: Since one of your specialties is exploring the literature of Tunisia and the Magrib that deals with characterizations of disabilities – particularly novels – what are some of the works that you would recommend to American readers who might be interested in reading stories that portray characters with disabilities in that region? SABZ: Tunisian works of fiction I recommend are:
Shukri Al-Mabkhout, El-Talyani / The Italian (2014), an Arabic fiction prestigious award winner (touches
on mental disability). The Moroccan writer Tahar Ben Jelloun, has two books that I would recommend: The Sand Child / L'enfant de sable (1985) and Sacred Night / La nuit sacrée (1987). For novels about Algeria, I would suggest the work of Rachid Mimouni, including Tombéza (1984), The Honor of the Tribe / L'Honneur de la tribu (1989) and The Curse / La Malédiction (1993). In addition to novels, some of your readers may want to take a look at film. Dorra Bouchoucha Fourati's recent work on a film titled I Love You, Hedi" / "Nhebbek hedi just a few days ago, won the best film award at a Berlin film festival. She alsoChris. produced "Buried Secrets" / in Arabic "Dowaha" a film by Raja Ammari dramatizing mental illness in 2009. Another film I would recommend is the 2006 work by Salma Baccar ; Fleur d'oubli / in Arabic Khoshkhash portraying culturally and socially-caused female mental illness. I would note that works from the Middle East are more numerous and diverse, but our focus is on Tunisia and the Maghreb for this interview. Still in connection with the Maghreb one could even think of including the work of France-based writers, old and young, who write fiction or make movies portraying disabilities in or in connection with the Maghreb area of the world. A young writer comes to my mind who started with teen fiction and whose writing is inclusive of characters with disabilities and she is Faiza Guène who is French of Algerian origin and who wrote such a piece of fiction marked by humor and titled Kiffe Kiffe Tomorrow or in French Kiffe Kiffe demain. The highly renowned and widely acclaimed French film Les Intouchablesor The Untouchables (2011) has connections to the Maghreb region as the character of the French disabled man's helper is based on a real Maghrebian person. Another film that is a French-Belgian cinematic work titled Rust and Bone features a European disabled female character in the context of a romantic drama with a character named by a Maghrebian-origin name – Ali. WG: All of these recommendations certainly offer Wordgathering readers a number of new or unfamiliar disability-related works on disability for them to check out. I want to thank you for taking part in this interview and, especially for your perspective on the into the current status of disability and disability advocacy in Tunisia. |